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This forum is primarily for the discussion of developing monetary systems like Digital Coin, but also existing alternative and mainstream monetary systems past & present. It should be used thoughtfully to both present and study such systems in an open, objective, and active manner. Please leave your politics at the door. Those coming to grandstand or otherwise play politics, will be removed. Stick to the facts and reference all that you are able.

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Author Topic: System exploit  (Read 1042 times)
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« on: February 20, 2010, 10:14:49 AM »

Hi. I've seen both the films and read the brief, brilliant work.  Smiley

I find the concept of self-issued credit problematic on various level.

1.The bread-baker can issue more credit (IOU bread) than he has the commodity or can make it, thus flooding the market and creating a bouble. then he can leave with stolen wealth.

2.When a credit coin is sold for prepetual coin, the agreement is on a future delivery of value. during the circulation time the issuers credit-coins have circulated between many individuals who do not seek his product at all. At the point of redemption each person's "bank bot" will ask for the highest value denominated in prepetual coin or other form of generally accepted value, other than his new flying-machine.

3.Further more, the credit-coin/prepetual-coin ratio can also be determined by the issuer's "credit-worthyness". that is to say, that once a bank-run is held on the bakery, holders of these "debt-coins" will sell them for something worth only half a loaf of bread, since the issuer can't deliver right now. Now, although the baker is not "in debt", he still needs to sell almost all of his daily produce for months on end, effectually a slave to the "debt" free system.

-Meta
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Jordan
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 08:49:13 PM »

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1.The bread-baker can issue more credit (IOU bread) than he has the commodity or can make it, thus flooding the market and creating a bouble. then he can leave with stolen wealth.

You're right of course, there is always the possibility of fraud. However we face such with the existing paradigm. Which is better?

Digital coin is likely a safer paradigm than what we have today.  People have an inherent trust in their government and so have been trusting of their money, yet, as you know there exists an inherent fraud with our money. But what can we do? - it's a trap - if we refuse the money then we are out of the system we cannot trade as all the money is the same.

With CC (Credit Coin)  refusal to accept a certain traders money, will not prevent you from accepting another traders coin. In other words we have more choice and people also have the opportunity to police the system directly.

I would be negligent as a trader if I didn't research the history of those with whom I trade.  Getting away with fraud would be a difficult thing to do.

Each trader would be registered with a bourse (an exchange and registry) and all bourses would be linked so that they can check all CC for validity. Such a system of linked competing bourses gives us the tools to investigate every bit of money that we come across. Fraud would be difficult to achieve. One might get away with it once or twice, but it would likely be small and such fraud would eventually catches up to the trader.

The greater concern for fraud, IMO, is with the bourses. The safety mechanism here lies with having many competing bourses that check each other. 

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2.When a credit coin is sold for prepetual coin, the agreement is on a future delivery of value. during the circulation time the issuers credit-coins have circulated between many individuals who do not seek his product at all. At the point of redemption each person's "bank bot" will ask for the highest value denominated in prepetual coin or other form of generally accepted value, other than his new flying-machine.

I'm not clear on what you're suggesting/asking here.  Why would one trade CC for PC?  PC, I think, is mostly just a standard. It gives us a means to value CC.  So A baker creates and uses his own CC to buy 25 lbs of flour, and the miller says that the flour is worth 5PC, then the baker says two of his loaves are worth 5PC, so he pays the miller with his CC equal to 5PC (probably 2CC, one for each loaf), thus 1 bakers CC = 2.5PC. Each specie of CC is valued based on the producers needs/requirements but would have a value in PC for reference.  If you took the bakers 2CC to his shop and demanded 5PC, the baker might give it to you but I suppose he'd be in his right to refuse you and only offer 2 loaves of bread. PC is mostly for standardizing.

We could do this today with existing money, although not digitally.  I could write IOU's for my services as a web developer, say for example, IOU one web forum. I could write on the IOU that it has a value of $50. The IOU could be traded around the community and eventually return to me whereupon the bearer might ask for $50 in exchange for it. I might feel that reasonable as I'd be extinguishing a debt, but more likely I would just say no and offer to develop a web forum for the bearer as the IOU demands a web forum and not $50.

Quote
3.Further more, the credit-coin/prepetual-coin ratio can also be determined by the issuer's "credit-worthyness". that is to say, that once a bank-run is held on the bakery, holders of these "debt-coins" will sell them for something worth only half a loaf of bread, since the issuer can't deliver right now. Now, although the baker is not "in debt", he still needs to sell almost all of his daily produce for months on end, effectually a slave to the "debt" free system.

I don't see how a 'bank-run' would happen. If I go to the baker today with $$ and he's out of bread, then I can still go to another baker who has bread and I can pay. The CC is no different. It is marked to a value of 'x' PC and is traded upon that value. It functions as regular money functions just in varying denominations. The second baker may be selling his bread at a price of 3PC, yet my 1CC from the first baker is only valued at 2.5PC, so I would have to give my 1CC plus half a PC or some other CC of .5PC value.

The point of this paradigm is that value is maintained. money doesn't inflate and deflate easily as it is not easily manipulated.
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