A Return to the Commonwealth

[anti-federalist]

I'm happy to have found this forum and am very interested in the Common Good Bank.

I believe that instead of taxes being used to pay interest to the international bankers,
interest on loans and mortgages by the Commonwealth should be used to pay all the taxes.
Taxation is totally unnecessary.

It is entirely possible that the Common Good Banks may be a way for us to eventually
eliminate all taxation whatsoever once enough people understand the concept.

For more information on the Commonwealths, please visit:
http://www.notaxesnow.org

gene karl

[Tex]

You may consider looking into the Jurisdiction 101 "video".
The Banking world as we know it exists in a "body of law" (A Jurisdiction) ... understanding this, is the first step to "possibly eliminating all taxation."

p.s That link you gave us is a "dogs breakfast" (Mess) we dont need a spew of information we need a conversation. (looking forward to one)

Take this as constructive criticism.
Regards
Tex

[Jordan]

@ anti-federalist

The common good bank is interesting, but they are still tied to the notion of fractional reserve banking. Fundamentally, unless the rules change to prevent bank credit from being used as the basis for new loans, such is the prime cause for exponential economic growth - which would be fine if it were not for the side effect of exponential human expansion on a finite world.

Personally, I believe we are on the verge of solving the nuclear fusion problem [ http://emc2fusion.org ]. And if we can solve this problem then perhaps unrestrained economic expansion will become feasible as we can migrate out into the cosmos. But until it materializes, such is just a pipe-dream and wouldn't be a prudent course to steer.

The website link you gave is interesting and I agree with most everything there.  

Anyway, thanks for dropping in and enjoy the forum.

-Tyler

[Zonsb]

Fundamentally, unless the rules change to prevent bank credit from being used as the basis for new loans,
-Tyler

Actually, it's illegal for banks to loan its assets or depositors money. None of them do it. What the banks do is deposit the "borrower's" promissory note and then issue a check to the "borrower". The banks are not the creditor. The "borrower's" promissory note -- which the banks quickly monetize -- funds the loan. It's the same with credit cards.

Also, a Federal Reserve Note is the private property of the Federal Reserve. Each FRN has two signatures on it. Those Treasury signatures are agents for the obligor--United States Inc. Like the signature you or I would put on an IOU when we borrow money from a friend. United States Inc. is bankrupt and every good and service purchased with FRNs has a lien on it.

A really great book to read is They Own It All (Including You) By Means Of Toxic Currency.

[Jordan]

@ Zonsb

You misunderstood my statement I think. I'm quite aware that banks don't loan out deposits. What I'm asserting is that the deposits are used as the 'basis' for new bank credit. The amount of bank credit a bank can create is their amount of deposits multiplied by the fractional reserve ratio.

What I was attempting to point out is this scenario:

Bank #1 creates bank credit for a new loan customer. This is new bank credit put into the system. People treat it like regular money and deposit it into accounts in another bank - bank #2. At this point, bank #2 sees this as real money - they don't distinguish between bank credit and original deposit money and so this bank credit now BECOMES deposit money.

At this point bank #2 can lend out more new credit - again the fractional reserve ration multiplied by the new deposits the bank has on reserve.

This process continues ad-infinitum thus create an ever growing pyramid of money - All of it based in debt that has to be paid back.

The only way of paying it all back is to rape the natural world further. Such a system is unsustainable in a finite world.

Hope that clarifies what I was trying to get across.   

[Zonsb]

@ Jordan,

I understand and understood the first time. I don't recall off hand who said this but I'm in complete agreement with it: "Banking doesn't involve fraud, it is fraud". I mean sheesh, people are borrowing their own credit in the form of IOU obligations of UNITED STATES Inc.

[cameronhill]

If the currency / credit creation is always just below the flash point (where full employment is or would be surpassed), then taxes (by the Sovereign) would be unnecessary but since that is likely to be very difficult to accomplish (although the interest rate could do some of that) taxation should be used to remove excess liquidity.  Of course that liquidity accumulates only to those who are "worthy" of aggregating it.  There in lies the problem.; some peope are more "equal" than others and are thus "entitled" to greater compensation.  It seems that there needs to be a judgement about whether the excess funds are truly being used effectively or just sitting around waiting to inflate the value of scarce commodities.  Federal taxes should only applied where the holders of the funds are likely to be use them to speculate on value of something that they do not own with no margin (unlike what we now see happening).

Long term activity which has no cash flow until the end of a period is now impossible to fund unless you have excess discressionary income or are close to the currency creation source.  This problem (the access to "common funds" by a few) is the vehicle through which all value eventually ends up migrating to the control of the bank or currency creation source.  If that source holds all things in common and has the duty to maintain the public purpose - full employment for ever - and there by maintain the common good, then it can grant liquidity for these long term activities (LTA) without expecting repayment and interest but everyone has the responsibility to keep the operators of these LTAs honest.  This could happen with a different kind of currency (for LTA) that can not be converted into short term funds??  Don't k now how that would work?

  

[Hans]

Hello every one,

My name is Hans, I'm an economist who live in The Netherlands / somewhere in Europe.
I'm new at this site.

Today money is > 95% abused for speculation. Speculation is trying to make profit / money just by change one type of money in something else. Money itself create nothing. The only way to make profit in this zero sum game is make somebody else lose. Today the banksters make huge profits at the expense of the rest of the world.

Stop taxing labor and using VAT. Start to implement a transaction tax with a rate of about 10% (like the tenth penning in the Christian religion). This is enough to pay the cost of total social security, public education and healthcare. And will prevent abusing money for speculation.

In my opinion it would be a good idea to stop money creation with debt. And start money creation at the right to live and right to work (article 23, 24, 25, and 26 of the Universal Declaration of the Human Rights of the UN in 1948).

In my model we can create every month again all the money we need to pay the cost of all wages and all social security benefits. Without any debt and interest obligation. To prevent inflation we have to sell all our goods and services through a new special organization. In this system no one have to be poor and or unemployed because there is not enough money, because we the people are the money by our self. In the new system in essence there are only two questions left: what do we want/need to make/produce  and  how do we distribute this production to the people.

Greetings,
Hans
 

[Jordan]

Hans,

Have a look at P. Grignon's credit coin concept http://digitalcoin.earthsociety.org/forum/index.php/board,11.0.html - I think it addresses some of your points/concerns about money.

--Tyler